The next president will receive 100% of the vote- Jesus alone will choose.
Whomever He chooses will be better than we deserve. -RC Sproul
A friend posted this quote from Sproul on Facebook yesterday with this verse:
"The LORD says to my Lord: Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool." (Psalm 110:1)
Here is our dialog about it [my friend's comments are in indented].
Jesus will choose the next president?
More like "has" from the foundation of the earth.
I know that Sproul is a Calvinist. Are you a Calvinist too?
For 30 years I have believed in the sovereignty of God.
Yes, I would consider myself reformed theologically.
When I think about the word sovereignty I see a pyramid where God has delegated sovereignty to nations, to communities, to families and finally to the individual. Both groups of peoples and people themselves exercise an incredible amount of sovereignty in the world. Small wonder, with this amount of sovereignty (even at a micro level) that the world is not worse than it is. Perhaps that speaks to the overarching (macro) level of sovereignty that God exerts as He brings beauty from ashes and works all things together for our good? That said, I do think that many embrace
Job's theology.
I believe that nothing has touched my life that did not pass through the hand of God. I believe that God is continually working all things together for my ultimate good and His purposes. I believe that whatever Satan or people have meant for evil, God is simultaneously working for good. When I do not understand why various things occur, I still trust in God's wisdom and goodness.
No problem with that. Yet the idea that God chooses presidents is a bit outside of the definition of sovereignty. And it presents a troubling image of God not only appointing presidents like Reagan but also despots like Nero and Hitler.
Jesus said to Pontius Pilate. "You would have no authority over me unless it were given to you from above." (John 19:11).
Yes. Leaders have delegated sovereignty. No argument there.
I guess I am missing your point then. Did God, at least permit, Hitler and Nero to have authority?
Since the beginning God has delegated sovereignty over creation to humans. US citizens exercise their God given sovereignty when they vote. Regarding Nero and Hitler, humans made them sovereign over others by their actions and inactions.
Are you saying God had nothing to do with it? Could have God intervened and stopped it?
You bring up issues regarding how God interacts with the world.
1) Firstly, he acts through creation. Natural laws of physics constrain much of what we do. Delegated sovereignty to humans also impact creation. The effects of Adam's sovereign actions (and humans since him) affect us still.
2) Secondly, history has proven that he also directly intervenes in the affairs of men. Miracles sometimes, albeit rarely, happen.
The existence of one form of sovereignty does not negate the other. In the end, God is more about influencing us and not controlling us. He wants us to be led by the Holy Spirit in the way that we exercise our sovereignty in the world. I think Ernie once put is this way: God leads. Satan controls.
Man's sovereignty is limited - "The heart o the king is in the hand of the Lord and he turns it wherever He wills." Prov. 21:1
I do love that verse in Proverbs. LOL. Not surprising that Solomon saw himself in that light. Many times leaders sense that their heart is being directed by God. Yet I am not sure that Solomon's heart was being turned by the Lord when he was amassing wives and concubines. In reality, no person is perfectly led by God.
I am not saying that human sovereignty is unlimited. Delegated sovereignty by nature is limited. Yet it seems obvious that God has delegated the election of presidents to the limited sovereignty of human beings. Which is where we began.
Brother I think this discussion could go on indefinitely due to the fact that my view of God and how He orders creation differs with your own. Here is how I see it based upon my understanding of the Reformers:Contrary to the “deistic” approach that some Christians take regarding God and His creation, the Biblical worldview insists that God rules over every aspect of nature. God is not like the “clockmaker” who creates the clock, winds it up, and then walks away. God has not walked away from His creation allowing nature to function by the “laws” that He established. Instead He is the One who moves the “hands of the clock.” According to the Bible, nature does not function by “scientific laws” but by the action of God. What we refer to as “scientific laws” are in reality the way God normally does things. Science is the study of “God’s pattern of behavior.” He is quite predictable. In fact, He is so predictable that you stake your life and occupation on His “routine” hundreds of times each day. We can be fairly certain that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning, because that is “normal” way God functions. But it is God who causes the sun to rise (Matt.5:45, also see Ps. 147: 8-9, 15-18). The sun does not operate independent of God according to the “laws of nature,” that is deism, not the teaching of Scripture. The Bible never uses the term nature in the sense of an autonomous entity, with unity in and of itself. The unity of the created order is in the Creator. The world works according to God’s acts and decrees. (See Isa. 45:7; Lam. 3:37-38).
The view that I presented you is not Deism - just read what I wrote about God directly intervening in the affairs of men. That is not Deism.
Yet the one that you present looks more like Pantheism because it really does not separate the Creator from the created. When the scripture speaks of God causing the sun to rise it is speaking of how God created the universe and not a divine micromanager of atoms. Really, if you are speaking about God manipulating atoms then I am not sure that you are making a clear distinction between the energy that moves the atoms and the God who created the energy. In my view God is not the energy who moves the sun but the One who created the energy.
That said, I do appreciate the dialog. And I can see where it could go on indefinitely.
I likewise appreciate the dialog. Let's end it for the time being, but I'm tempted..lol.
So what do you all think? Will Jesus choose the next president?
As you look back on a year almost ended, recall the ways in which God has been inviting you to return, again and again, to Love which is the same as returning to God.
