- Why not call it a fair consumption tax? At least the name would actually mean something. And, in this era of "spin", that would be refreshing.
- The "everyone gets the same level of prebate" and everyone pays the same 23% sales tax on new items is an interesting concept. Wonder what kind of shift there would be to used (vs new) cars. Maybe a whole new cottage industry of used stuff would surface.. might free us from China/Walmart? May not be good for manufactuing though?
- Still don't understand what incentive I would have to buy new and pay 23% when I could buy used and pay no tax. And how will people pay taxes on things bought via the internet from other countries? Seems like the idea of this taxis based on the idea that people are stupid and are not frugal in their spending. What happens when folks figure this out?
- I think that people who repair cars, shoes and the like might benefit a lot. But it doesn't seem to be good policy because it seems to exploit people's weaknesses. It seems that the ultra-rich would benefit the most, the poor would probably not be affected but the middle class would bear more of a tax burden because they will be purchasing the most - until they figure it out.
I thought that I might try to evaluate the pros and cons of the Fair Tax but I doubt that I could do this much justice. So, in lieu of that, I invite you to let me know what you think. Do you think that you would personally benefit? Do you have any concerns about it? What are your pros and cons regarding a federal consumption tax?
I still have a few questions about the "Fair Tax" ideals. Admittedly, I haven't studied it in depth, and this may be part of my ignorance. But these are basic issues that I believe could impact it's effectiveness.
ReplyDeleteThe 23% tax issue: To have a tax rate that is imposed at the beginning would have to know the Final Selling Price (FSP). To tax 23% of the FSP means that it has to be fixed. Would this change or end competition as we know it? What about things like coupons and other incentives to buy would have to change or end?
Alas, this is but a minor detail... but one worth musing. It might be a fixed amount instead. But how is that determined?
But my next question is much bigger. Fair Tax suggest that the tax rate would be equal, across the board. Equality. After all, isn't that "fair?" This probably has a lot of people supporting it because they know, the more money you make, the more the government will take in taxes. This is very true. And, it scares some people.
If we flip that statement around, we get this: The less money you make, the less money the government will take in taxes. A.K.A... Tax Breaks. How would Fair Tax effect the tax breaks already in place to help the low income people? They depend on these breaks to support because they have less disposable income than their higher income counter-parts.
Just a couple of questions... Maybe there are "fair" answers.
Good feedback Oscar. I think that you hit on some very important stuff. I think that some people only consider the impact to their family and forget about the poor. In my thinking any taxing formula will have to account for the poor.
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ReplyDeleteDid you know Fairtax fine print has a massive new tax?
ReplyDeleteNot on people, but in addition to a "people tax" they have a truly massive tax on city, state, township, county governments.
Massive -- over a trillion dollars a year. Whatever a city or state (or any government entity) spends, they must pay the federal government 23% of that.
Yet they mention this in just one sentence in their "plan".
Their spokesmen defend it tenaciously. Fairtax leaders have claimed that ANY exemption or exclusion would render Fairtax pointless. This tax on government is, by far, their biggest revenue source. Every city, every county, every township, every state, MUST pay it.
Here is the sentence that got me asking questions --
"Under our plan, all city and state governments will pay to the federal government a tax on all their spending -- on all their purchases, on services and goods, including labor (wages)."
Paraphrased -- Fairtax The Truth. Answering the Critics. Page 138
Curious about this odd sentence, I asked Fairtax spokesman about it.
I got some really, really goofy answers.
http://fairtaxhoax.blogspot.com/
Forget for a moment if this tax on government is even sane (it's not) notice that they hide it in the fine print. In ONE sentence out of probably a million they have made up.
That is what is so astonishing -- and so telling. The leaders MUST, simply MUST, know their plan is nonsense precisely because they hide this massive tax.
Call it the Farce Tax. Or the Moonbeam tax. Or the Massive Tax on City and State governments.
You can call it the moonbeam tax, because they have exactly the same chance of taxing every city, county, and state government with a massive tax, as they do taxing moonbeams.
Why did they hide this massive tax?
Because they know it's utter nonsense.
WHy include utter nonsense in their "plan"?
Because they had to. They had to pretend to have a 23% tax. They could not speak the truth, and say 59%, which is what the actual math shows. Everyone would realize, a 59% sales tax would destroy consumption, absolutely obliterate new car sales, for example. Utterly destroy new home sales, ect.
So they lied. They said 23% -- and they said prices will fall 22%. So essentially as Boortz claime, "its a wash" -- the tax will increase the price of things, by about the same as they say prices will drop.
That is crazy enough-- but they work this lunacy by pretending to tax over a trillion dollars FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
I was a big fan of Fairtax till I ssw this insanity. And I questioned their official spokesmen about it. And I looked deeper. And it's clear -- the plan is utter nonsense
http://fairtaxhoax.blogspot.com/
Did you know Fairtax fine print has a massive new tax? Not on people, but in addition to a "people tax" they have a truly massive tax on city, state, township, county governments.
ReplyDeleteMassive -- over a trillion dollars a year. Yet they mention this in just one sentence in their "plan".
Their spokesmen defend it tenaciously ---- there is simply no question this is the great underpinning of their math, and central to their plan. Fairtax can not exist without it -- if they do not tax city and state governments, they admit their own plan is meaningless. Without this huge revenue from city and state governments, the "people tax" would be far, far higher.
That's right, a massive tax. A HIDDEN massive tax.
Here is the sentence that got me asking questions -- and when I asked these questions, I got answers which can only be described as goofy .
I have a blog about Fairtax spokesman's answers here
http://fairtaxhoax.blogspot.com/
Forget for a moment if this tax on government is even sane (it's not) notice that they hide it in the fine print. In ONE sentence out of probably a million they have made up.
That is what is so astonishing -- and so telling. The leaders MUST, simply MUST, know their plan is nonsense precisely because they hide this massive tax.
Call it the Farce Tax. Or the Moonbeam tax. Or the Massive Tax on City and State governments.
You can call it the moonbeam tax, because they have exactly the same chance of taxing every city, county, and state government with a massive tax, as they do taxing moonbeams.
Why did they hide this massive tax?
Because they know it's utter nonsense.
WHy include utter nonsense in their "plan"?
Because they had to. They had to pretend to have a 23% tax. They could not speak the truth, and say 59%, which is what the actual math shows. Everyone would realize, a 59% sales tax would destroy consumption, absolutely obliterate new car sales, for example. Utterly destroy new home sales, ect.
So they lied. They said 23% -- and they said prices will fall 22%. So essentially as Boortz claime, "its a wash" -- the tax will increase the price of things, by about the same as they say prices will drop.
That is crazy enough-- but they work this lunacy by pretending to tax over a trillion dollars FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
I was a big fan of Fairtax till I ssw this insanity. And I questioned their official spokesmen about it. And I looked deeper. And it's clear -- the plan is utter nonsense
http://fairtaxhoax.blogspot.com/
That is monumental Seeker. Thanks for shedding light on that.
ReplyDeleteFairtax has fine print? I could never imagine out government trying to sneak anything in, especially under our noses.
ReplyDeleteActually, there probably is. At least at the level of those behind this mega-push for publicity. But the whole idea of having a level tax system is a progressive one. Their ideals are worth putting out there for debate.
Yes Fairtax has fine print, and here it is.
ReplyDelete"Under our plan, all city and state governments will pay to the federal government a tax on all their spending -- on all their purchases, on services and goods, including labor (wages)."
Fairtax -The Truth. Answering the Critics. Page 138.
A massive tax on all government spending!
Yet that ONE sentence is the SUM TOTAL of how they mention this massive tax.
Out of hundreds of thousands of sentences, they devote ONE to this massive tax on city and state governments.
Seriously, what does that tell you?
I asked Fairtax spokesman about this fine print, expecting some rational reply.
Instead, they tenaciously defended this massive tax on city and state governments.
I got all kinds of goofy answers from them -- see them here
http://fairtaxhoax.blogspot.com.
One spokesmans said had to tax government, or else government would go into business, selling hamburgers or cars, and not have to pay the tax. That would be unfair to those businesses that had to pay it.
That is their logic?
No, that is their excuse, after they are cornered about it.
The reason they tax the government (or pretend they will) is to make their math work, on paper.
If they just counted the tax they get from PEOPLE - their math would fall far short.
http://fairtaxhoax.blogspot.com
Seeker prints things from anti-fair tax websites. Read the legeslation tself. For example, seeker says cities and munis would have to pay on things and on PEOPLE. Huh? Quit trying to make thinks difficult. The fair taxes one thing and one thing only...new items sold to the end user.
ReplyDeleteBob, as for your question earlier about a used item cottage industry...it already exists. Ever heard of flea markets and yard sales?