“I think this president has shown a remarkable disrespect for his office, for the moral dimensions of leadership, for his friends, for his wife, for his precious daughter.” -John Edwards in 1999 speaking of Bill Clinton and the Monica Lewinsky affair.
I gotta admit that I was blindsided when the tabloids started reporting about Edwards' affair.. a report which has proved to be true. In January I predicted that John Edwards would be the democratic candidate for president this year.. last year I wrote a congratulatory post about how I admired them for the way that they were fighting together to combat Elizabeth's cancer. So I was totally blown away about Edwards' affair.
I have listened to a few of the clips from Edwards' interview with an ABC reporter and I have to say that he is sounding more like a weasel than a one time senator and.. wait.. maybe that was an insult to weasels.. I guess he just sounded like a politician :(
but is it fair to say that someone who is a very good leader but has a weakness (in the form of women) is less capable of leading.
ReplyDeletehow about the morally upright man who doesn't know how to lead.. is he the better leader?
K-Bob, I am SO GLAD you posted this because it satisfied my need to bring it up. I had a very angry post (in my mind only) but decided to cool off before posting it and now I am glad I didn't. You stated the facts and let them speak for themselves.
ReplyDeleteRygel, excellent question and I see your point but I have to disagree. I think one of the characteristics of a good leader is integrity and a person who cheats on their spouse and lies about it is not a person of integrity. Honesty, trust, loyalty are important leadership traits because leaders are also role models, examples to follow.
But no - a morally upright man is not more qualified to be a leader, you have to have morals AND leaderships skills to be a good leader (IMO)
I agree with Barbara - you have to have morals AND leaderships skills to be a good leader.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised to hear about this as well, particularly in hearing how this has added so much stress on a woman that is fighting the battle of her life against cancer. What was even more surprising to me (and I suppose it shouldn't have been that big a shock) was the comments that folks like Paul Begala were making about how the statement Edwards issued was bizarre, narcissistic, and went well beyond what he should have said.
ReplyDeleteGood morals and leadership skills are important in a leader; who was the last president who had both? I think that's why I sigh when I think of what might have been with a Colin Powell presidency.
Colin Powell - now that is a guy that we are in agreement on Matt :)
ReplyDeleteThis is a sad thing. The lying, I really resent the lying.
ReplyDeleteColin Powell....}}}sigh{{{
Totally agree.
I never trust people who cannot be trusted by the ones to whom they made a vow, namely their family. If someone would betray those they love, for something as trivial as an orgasm, what then would they do to nameless, faceless us when faced with the even greater temptations of political office?
ReplyDeleteI'm no longer shocked by revelations such as this. To me, it just shows Edwards is human. What never does cease to amaze me though is the indignation at the fact that he lied about the affair. What do people expect? Was he supposed to publicly confess it?
ReplyDeleteIt's a tough life being a politician/celebrity. When you make your living off of your fame, you give up a certain amount of privacy. This should be a private thing within the Edwards family. But, it just ain't so for people in the public spotlight. I feel badly for the family trying to navigate this trying time with the eyes of all America on them and the tongues of all Americans wagging about them.
Thanks Tyler.. I resonate with what you said about betrayal.
ReplyDeleteI think that leaders of all type are held to a higher standard - to whom much is given much is required.
Edwards' betrayal did shock me Brian.. maybe I am a bit too believing at times.. I guess I'd rather believe the best in people.. even politicians.. it surprised me that it did not surprise you.. you don't seem to be the cynical type :)
Bob,
ReplyDeleteI think I'm pretty far from cynical. But, I do like to think I'm a realist. Politicians are human beings. They have the same vulnerabilities that we all do. In some ways I think they are more vulnerable. They typically have pretty big (and fragile) egos. They crave attention and approval. It's no surprise to me that a man in that position who has women throwing themselves at him would succumb to temptation.
I think John Edwards made a mistake. It doesn't make me question his character or his ability to lead. Look at King David, a man after G-d's own heart. He murdered to have the object of his desire. Yet, not too many people would say he wasn't an "upright" man.
Peace,
Brian
I remain indignant over the lying. I value honesty above all. It's sad that it came out, because of his wife and her illness--but what do these folks think will happen when they are in the limelight? I feel for his wife. The surprising thing to me is that this kind of stuff doesn't shock anyone anymore--what does that say? Of course he is human, but he had no qualms about judging Clinton, did he?
ReplyDeleteKaren,
ReplyDeleteNo, he did not seem to have any qualms about judging Clinton. Why people who live in glass houses continue to throw stones is one of the things about human nature that does still amaze me. We're so quick to judge others. But, what I often see is the very thing people are most judgmental about is the thing that is their own vulnerability. I try to avoid saying things like "I would never do..."
I don't judge Edwards any more harshly because he made the mistake of judging Clinton so harshly. This is not an uncommon phenomenon among men in this position. They are vulnerable and many of them cannot handle the temptation.
Peace,
Brian
Shades of Ted Haggard..
ReplyDelete"what I often see is the very thing people are most judgmental about is the thing that is their own vulnerability."
..great point Brian.. I have seen this one lived out before me eyes over and over again.. not that I am judging Ted.. I don't have any problems.. I don't.. I don't :)
I believe that we should expect more from our leaders...and from ourselves.
ReplyDeleteI think we've all seen the better side of people and should actively strive for the better, and start giving applause and attention to those who are truly heroic in our world. Look at who we put on magazine covers! You have to search far and wide for the sports figure who remains steadfast to his family, or spends his or her free hours in charity work. You might find a little piece on an actor who has been married forever or who runs a clean business and has for years. No, instead we get Paris Hilton, LiLo, and a whole slew of politicians who lower the bar for everyone. These are our "heroes" of today and it's disgusting.
Failure? Of course there is failure as humans are not fail-proof. It's truly a tragedy that we are no longer surprised by this kind of stuff.
Even I am more upset about his lying than his infidelity. What can our children learn from someone who has made a mistake and then puts it right? I am weak, and make many, many mistakes, but as I've gone along I've (painfully) learned to admit them...just ask my family and friends.
Thanks Karen for that last comment. Your wonderful heart shines through when you say speak of the truly heroic of our world.
ReplyDeleteKaren,
ReplyDeleteI agree that we should all strive for the better and even help each other achieve the better. I'm not sure how expecting more from our leaders and ourselves actually translates into action though. And, I'm not sure how useful expectation are. Perhaps you are saying we need to demand more from our leaders? Does expecting more mean we condemn them when they fail?
While I am all for holding up ideals, I think it's dangerous to point to any specific person too closely because we are all human. The people who appear to have no sin just don't have any visible or glaring sins.
When we discussed John Edwards with our girls, we told them that what he did was wrong and was a mistake. My 11 year old told me she could never forgive me if I did such a thing. So, I think they understand pretty well this is not a pattern they want to follow. OTOH, I also told them that he made a mistake and that we are all humans and all make mistakes. We should not be too hard on ourselves or others when we fail. And, IMO, it doesn't do a lot of good when people get indignant about our leaders failing.
From what I've been taught one of the unique things about the heroes in the Hebrew scriptures is that the Jews actually recorded the shortcomings of their leaders like Moses, David, Noah, etc. In fact, I can't think of a single Biblical hero (except Jesus) who didn't have some character flaw. I think this is an important lesson for us to keep in mind. Don't put them too high up on a pedestal.
Thanks, Bob, you're very kind, as usual. I'm a mess, too, just like everyone.
ReplyDeleteBrian, I applaud you in dealing with things like this with your kids. Not everyone does.
We're on the same page in that we accept and expect faults in humans. Like you said...look at Paul and all the leaders in the Bible.
"Does expecting more mean we condemn them when they fail?" No.
Where we disagree is in how the problem is handled--by lying, or with honesty.
I respect your position, Brian.
Karen,
ReplyDeleteJust for the record, I didn't mean to imply that when we make a mistake the appropriate response is to lie about it.
Lying about an affair when you're in a position like John Edwards (or Ted Hagee or Eliot Spitzer or...) kind of goes with the territory. In this case, John and Elizabeth Edwards dealt with this privately a couple of years ago. While it would have been an extremely brave thing for John Edwards to make a public admission of the affair, it's just not something I would expect.
I do not condone the affair or the lying about it. I'd like to be perfectly clear about that. However, I can understand how the first mistake led to the second. And I view John Edwards as a flawed human being, like the rest of us. I can imagine he must have been tortured all those months/years as the rumors circulated and he kept having to deny, particularly knowing Elizabeth and others knew the truth. He succumbed to hubris and is now paying the price.
Personally, I would be no more or less likely to vote for Edwards based on this.
Peace,
Brian
I guess I misunderstood, based on your comment earlier:
ReplyDelete"What never does cease to amaze me though is the indignation at the fact that he lied about the affair. What do people expect?"
I do not care to know about anyone's private lives. I would not expect anyone to just come out in public and admit to anything like this, but what happens after it gets "out there" is key. And, it always seems to come out, doesn't it?
Once it's out, how it's handled shapes my opinion of that person's character.
Fair enough, Karen. I respect your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it.
ReplyDeleteI find this very disappointing. This may sound contradictory because I said we should expect our leaders to be human. But, I really like John Edwards and I think this will torpedo his career. He made a stupid mistake. And, yes, it does seem that it always comes out. But, we don't know what we don't know. We don't know how many men (or women) have gotten away with this.
I guess he could have handled it better once the rumors got to such a level. But, I'm not surprised he denied it as long as there was plausible deniability. This is a huge blow for his family. They had to live through his admission in 2006 and now they have to live through it all again and the public humiliation. Is it possible he continued to deny, deny, deny to spare his family additional grief?
Peace,
Brian
"Is it possible he continued to deny, deny, deny to spare his family additional grief?"
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely, and probably to protect Rielle Hunter as well.
Yes, it may torpedo his career.
Lessons learned, I guess.
There is a scene in the AMC series "Mad Men" where one of the corporate underlings attempts to blackmail his way to a promotion.. his boss thinks about it and tells him "I won't let you hold this over me" - it is a chilling scene where a fallen man deals with his past and opts for truth over lies.
ReplyDeleteThere is something about living a lie that puts you in bondage.. a bondage in which more sin is required to deal with the former sin. When the truth comes out (even via the tabloids), I think that we need to roll with it instead of denying it because admitting to the truth will result in freedom from the bondage of the lie.
Edwards would have done well to own up to the truth instead of denying it. Of course some of these things just come with power - a prophet had to confront Israeli King David on his adultery and murder.. and he was described as a man after God's heart.
I agree with the truth over lies sentiment, Bob. The truth sets us free in more ways than one. A quick segue to my favorite candidate for president, by not denying his drug use (as a young man), it does not have the power to come back on him later.
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm sure Edwards is not happy about what this is going to to do his political career, I'd bet there is a lot of relief with no longer having to deny it and to have to hope it won't come out. Now, he can deal with what he has done and begin to move on.
I'm glad you brought up King David. My middle name is David and I have always been particularly touched by his story, in many ways.
OK. I will turn your blog back over to you now. I've said enough.
Peace,
Brian
LOL.
ReplyDeleteMe, too.
We hijacked your blog, Bob. :-)
..and a sweet hijacking it was at that!
ReplyDeleteThanks all for the great dialog.. when news like this breaks I think that it is helpful to process our thoughts and feelings with people we respect and trust.. glad that you all are such people.
-Bob
I really don't have a horrible opinion of politicians weirdly enough. In fact, I rather admire someone who takes such a mantle. I think most do it with good intentions, Obama and Cruz included. Some of my personal heroes are politicians, namely Thatcher and Churchill!
ReplyDelete